Hello, and a very warm welcome to our Third conversation with the enigmatic Chestnut and his partner Apple. It’s so good to see you both again… and Apple, you’re positively glowing!

Yes, that’s what Chestnut said!

Is there a reason… the studio lights a bit too hot for you? We can turn them down…

Oh, no need… I’m pregnant!

Wow! This really is a special day! Colt or Filly … or don’t know yet?

It will be exactly what it’s meant to be.

Oh, so you mean according to its DNA… genetics and that sort of thing…

No, I mean it will be exactly what was arranged by our higher selves, and the Soul of the foal.

‘Soul of the foal’… I like that!

Good… but do you understand it?

How do you mean?

Well, most humans seem to think like you said: a child or foal is born and what type it turns out to be depends on what you call Genetics. That’s not how we see things.

So, what’s your take on it?

In the Horse-Soul Realms, when a horse soul-part wants to experience life on an Earth, it makes an arrangement with a host mother on the planet.

Oh, you mean like having foster parents?

Something like that.

But surely, you’re not saying that horses actually choose to be born?

Not just horses – all mammals do this, including humans.

You mean that I chose to be born?

Right! You wished to experience life in a human body on this Earth – for whatever reason. Then, in consultation with you higher self, that is, your Soul, you made arrangements to be born to a female in a particular location on the planet… in your case, a female in the UK.

Hang on! You’re saying that I actually decided to be born on Earth, and my mum agreed to accept me as a child?

Yes!  Now you’ve got it! 
[ASIDE:  Chestnut, humans aren’t quite as stupid as you said they were!]

That is total, utter NONSENSE!

[ASIDE: Oh, sorry… I take that back!]  

What part are you having difficulty accepting, Griff?

Well, all of it! People, or horses, don’t choose to be born: it’s just chance, natural selection…

You mean, like some sort of Russian Roulette then?

That’s taking it a bit far! Okay, supposing what you said is true: what if I arranged to be born on this planet, then changed my mind after, say, six months. What then?

So, you’re never heard of still-births – or abortions? 

Well, of course I have, but…

But what, Griff?

I-I-I… I can’t think of any reason why you’re not right! But it goes totally against the way I was brought up… how I was educated. 

Yes, I believe that’s true Griff. But I’ll take you back to something we discussed the first time you interviewed me. If you recall, in our very first discussion, we talked about how the idea that the Earth and Planets orbit the Sun was rejected by most humans for centuries – because it contradicted the teachings of the Catholic Church. Today, you live in a similar dark age. 

Okay, I know where you’re going with this; but look at it this way: if we really did choose to be born, why choose the lives we have? I mean, some people are born into terrible situations around the World… places of famine, war and other depravations. And others are born with missing limbs. Who is their right mind would choose to do that?

You’re looking at life from a very narrow, and very self-centred, point of view Griff – if you don’t mind me saying so. Your real, enlightened self would never consider life in such a way. For one thing, the whole purpose of life is to Evolve; so, to choose an easy, luxurious life might not be the best way to go. Also, many humans, and some animals, generate Karma during their lifetime, which must be repaid in the next life.

Repaid in what way?

In many ways. No-one can evolve without ‘wiping the slate clean’, as you say. If you have harmed another, or prevented someone from evolving on Earth, then you have another chance to put things right next time around.

Thank you for that Chestnut – I’m sure you’ve given our listeners much food for thought today already. Incidentally, if anyone tuning in to our show has any questions for Chestnut or Apple, please do send them to us via this website, or email sjhowrie@gmail.com.

Talking of which, I have here a question from Jennifer Bowler of Melbourne, Australia, who asks: ‘If you could change one thing on our planet, what would it be?’ Let’s have an answer from each of you. 

That’s easy! Close all the Zoos – release all the animals from those terrible places and let them live freely in their natural environments. 

I agree. To imprison animals, often for their whole lives, when they have done nothing wrong, is totally unethical. There is no justification for this.

But Zoos preserve wildlife… they keep them safe from poachers…

You know that’s not true Griff! It would be kinder to end the lives of these animals that to keep them imprisoned in unnatural surroundings!

But what about the educational aspects… kids learning about animals they would never experience otherwise? I’m right, aren’t I?

No! You humans have so many resources for children… books, pictures, videos, and websites… your children can learn and understand from those. And if parents really want to see wild animals up close, they can travel abroad and see them in their native hab… hab…

Habitats

Yes, exactly: native habitats.

Okay, I take your points… thank you that Apple. So how about you, Chestnut… what would you change on this planet, if you could? 

I would, of course, support Apple’s choice of closing all Zoos in your World. But my own choice would be to end the animal holocaust that happens day in, day out around the World.

Animal holocaust? What are you talking about?

Zoos represent uncaring actions by humans on their fellow Earthlings. But factory farming of other types of animals is way lower than that.

Oh, you mean the mass production of meat and dairy products around the World. Yes, I admit it’s not good… but it’s an unnecessary evil, I’m afraid…

Necessary? Do you mean you need to do this for your survival?

Exactly, yes. All humans need animal protein. And with our expanding population, farming animals on a large scale is the only way we can get the protein we need. These farm animals are a necessary part of our food chain…

You don’t need animal protein!

Oh, I think you’ll find we do!

Oh no you don’t!

Oh yes, we do!

This is like one of your human pantomimes!

If you did need it animal protein, Vegans would have died from malnutrition many years ago – and you know that’s not the case!

Well…

Also, there is no ‘food chain’. There is just your natural food – and that is not so very different from other animals.

You mean we should all eat grass, like you and Apple?

Have you not been listening to what we told you in our conversations? We only eat grass because you put us in fields where there is nothing else to eat!

Come on Apple… this human is no better than all the rest… 

Now hold your horses!

And the last human to say that to us is now in hospital!

[Sighs]  Sorry folks… we’ll be back again soon… I promise.

*********

Well, I’m glad to say – they’re back! Believe it or not, I’m very open to learning from this fascinating couple… and I look forward to meeting the baby!

We’ll bring the young one to the studio.

That would be a first! And regards the birth, I presume you’ll opt for a natural one, Apple?

What other type is there?

From a human perspective, people usually go to a hospital for the birth of the child. But some do opt for a home birth, with a mid-wife in attendance, of course…

Yes, I’m familiar with the human hospital methods, Griff… and they are mostly totally unnatural.

In what way?

To begin with, I understand that women ‘lie down’ to have the baby.

Yes, correct. That’s the natural position for humans, I think.

Natural! It couldn’t be more unnatural!

How so?

Tell me, Griff, do you go to the toilet lying down?

No! Of course not.

And why is that?

Because everybody does it that way… it’s natural. How else could you do it? 

Yes, it is the natural and most efficient way… because it’s gravity-assisted. And it’s the same with childbirth.

Hold on… you’re right! Why have we not thought of this before! It would certainly cut out a lot of that heaving and pushing women do. So why do women give birth lying down?

I’d like to hear this too!

It all started with a French King… Louis the Fourteenth, I believe. According to what I’ve read, he enjoyed watching his wives and mistresses give birth. But this was very difficult in the usual upright or squatting positions. So, to give the King a better view, his ladies would recline on a bed. He observed the births of his 22 children that way. And because the King advocated it, it became fashionable, and others began to follow suit…

Well, for goodness sake! Is that for real?

It’s well documented.

Okay, so the upright, squatting position is best… from a gravity point of view. But what if the child lands on his head?

Obviously, a soft landing is required! I will use plenty of hay. 

Well, well… this is an eye-opener. But thinking about it, that’s the way all animals give birth, isn’t it?

Exactly! So that was your first misconception.

There’s more?

Indeed. Human babies arrive with ‘packaging material’, you could say. Fluid and mucus which clogs its passageways, and needs to be expelled when the new being arrives on Earth. A human baby does this by crying.

So crying is a good thing?

Yes! If the baby is prevented from crying, it could have problems in later life with the mucus that had not been expelled as baby.

This is interesting… I’d never heard this before.

Horse mothers are in touch with their natural senses, and with their Soul, and follow these things instinctively. They do not need doctors, nurses or hospitals. All is so easy.

Now wait a minute! The picture you’re painting makes humans look much more primitive and uninformed than horses!

Welcome to the real World, Griff!

But how have we got things so wrong? Why don’t we follow the natural ways, like you horses?

Simply because you’re on the wrong track.

Phew! You don’t hold back do you! This has been Griff Jones talking with the amazing Chestnut and Apple – and we’ll be back real soon!

*********

Welcome back everyone. I’m joined once again by our horse-talking couple, Chestnut and Apple, who have been sharing their wisdom, and how they view us humans here on planet Earth.

So, you were saying that humans are ‘on the wrong track’, Chestnut, and I have to agree with you in so many ways. But how did we get onto this track – and how can we get off it?

If I could answer first… Chestnut has been teaching me to read your English books, and what I’ve noticed is you have so many printed words, yet so little understanding!

Yes, this is one of the first things I noticed too. Humans love talking, writing and philosophizing about life, but do very little to make it better. This is just a part of the wrong track you are on. The wrong track has always been there… it’s very necessary for your Evolution… 

Hang on a minute! How can a wrong way of doing things help us to Evolve?

Easily! Whilst I was studying at University, we were often given ‘multiple-choice’ tests. Usually, there were three or four incorrect answers and one correct one. The wrong answers are needed in order to give students the chance to choose the correct one. That was all part of our learning. How could you demonstrate any learning if all the answers were correct – or all were wrong? And it’s the same in life, in Evolution.  

And I’m not talking about, what you call, ‘Darwinian Evolution’, that crazy idea where a species of animal can change to another over a period of time… 

Right, we talked about that in an earlier interview. You said that Evolution has nothing to do with changing body shape or design… it’s about learning to handle situations… a sort of mental development and learning.

Yes, exactly! Griff… well done! 

Do I get a carrot now?

You can have a whole bucketful!

So, what’s the connection between ‘evolution’ and the ‘wrong track?’ Do you mean we’re can’t evolve if we’re on the wrong track? And in that case, why don’t we just jump off it and choose another track?

Since being able understand your language, I’ve learned about people who become addicted to certain types of drugs, and can’t stop the habit. I met some students at university taking ‘recreational drugs’, as you call them, and what I observed was this: in the beginning, they did it because they liked the effect. But after a while, when they’d had enough, they found they were hooked… and then needed help to be drug-free. 

So, you’re saying we got onto this track because of something we really liked about it. Then, when we wanted to change tracks, we found we’d become addicted to it, and couldn’t change without outside help?

Yes, that sort of thing.

But most drug addicts can dry out… they can get off the drugs eventually, even though it can be painful and traumatic… right?

True.

So that means there’s still hope for us… we can stop the way we’re going, and change to a natural way… can’t we?

Yes, it’s definitely possible… but it’s going to take time. If you’re on a train going in the wrong direction and want to reverse the direction of the train, it’s impossible to do that in an instant. You must apply the brakes; wait for the train to stop; then go into reverse.

Apple… do you see any hope for mankind how? Or have we gone too far in the wrong direction, too far on the wrong track now?

Of course, there is still hope. But as Chestnut said before, Evolution of humans can only happen when they deposit their ‘output’ – their shit, as you call it, into the soil. Looking around this world today, this, this seems very difficult for you to do.

So where does that leave us? Does it mean that we can’t evolve now?

It means that big changes must be made to the Earth. Just as neglected farm fields must be ‘turned over’ and aerated – so the Earth as a whole needed to change. This could mean that land areas now above water will disappear below the oceans, and others will rise from the seas. I think we have talked about this before.

Yes, I think we did. But how do tracks of thought fit into all this?

The track of thought you use could be called your ‘Thought Pattern’. As discussed before, humans – and horses – do not, cannot, make their own thoughts: the brain receives thought tracks, and people choose which track to follow. The current thought patterns are suitable for this age only – how the Earth is now. How many people do you think could survive if all your houses, office buildings, shops, roads, railways and technology disappeared overnight?

No many! It would be difficult for most people to adapt to that. It sounds like we’d be returning to the Stone Age.

Not exactly; but certainly an environment for which your current way of thinking has not prepared you for.

Is this a real possibility?

Yes, it is. Are you worried?

Yes, a little! How would we survive?

With your current thought pattern, you won’t! That’s why the change is needed.

As I understand it, the change will start with the young. A new baby, or foal, is always born with its own thought tracks – ones suited to its life on Earth. At the right time, the new generation will receive a very different type of thought pattern, one made for the new environment, the new changes on Earth. Is that right Chestnut?

Exactly right, Apple.

And would you like to tell our listeners and readers when this will happen?

I’d like to, but it’s impossible to say just now. Every step depends on the previous ones, and also depends on how quickly the environment will change and adapt. 

Well, you’re certainly right about the Earth changing… I was reading recently about the rapid disappearance of glaciers in Greenland, Iceland and the North and South Poles…

It will all happen at the right time… sooner or later.

Okay. On that thoughtful note, it’s time for some more questions! The first one comes from Klaus Mueller of Germany who asks: “Is COVID-19 a punishment from God… or what you would call the Soul?”

Nay! Not at all! Humans are given free choice so they can evolve from the Earth, and there is no punishment for making any choice. It’s only humans that talk about and give out ‘punishments’… no other beings in the Cosmos do this. Covid-19 and other viruses are just the natural consequences of mistreating animals, and misusing substance in an unnatural way.

I learned a new English word for this today: Karma. When horses are very young, they learn the laws of Karma very quickly, and understand its guidance. Pain is one form of this guidance.

Exactly… yet humans continually ignore the guidance from their Soul, and talk about going through ‘the pain barrier’. Or they take pills to remove the pain, without finding out what caused it in the first place. To my way thinking, the Covid-19 virus happened because humans interfered yet again in the world of animals. A wild animal’s environment is their own, and humans should leave it alone. Just imagine if you came to work one day, Griff, and found a tiger sitting in your chair, looking at your computer screen. I’m sure you’d want it out of the building as quickly as possible! 

Well, yes – of course! A tiger’s place is not in the office of a production company like this! So, I take your point. You must have had a similar reaction when you studied at Cambridge, Chestnut? People feeling uncomfortable with a horse in the college?

Certainly! But no-one was afraid of me, like they would be if I was a tiger.

You’re saying, then, that people’s interference in wild animals’ natural habitats was the cause of our virus problems?

Yes, without question. Wild animals carry bacteria and organisms which are harmless and necessary to them, but which can hurt and even kill humans. Animals have their own purpose for living on Earth, and to kill them for food – or for clothing, or decoration – is totally interfering in that purpose. 

I was reading about electricity recently (I borrowed one of Chestnut’s books!). It seems that this is a very useful substance to humans, and can make their lives much easier in many ways. But if they stick a finger into a stream of electricity, it can kill them! And I think this is similar to how you should view wild animals: leave them alone, and they will help to make the environment better. But, take them away from their natural purpose, and they can kill you. 

So, don’t stick your finger in other animals’ business, right Apple?

You could say that!

I take what you’re both saying – and I totally agree with you, as far as wild animals are concerned. But we don’t get these sorts of viruses when we raise, what we call, ‘domesticate animals’ … so no problem farming and eating those?

No!!!!

You generally don’t get their viruses because you breed them, filling them full of chemicals that kill those viruses. But you get a much worse consequence for your mistreatment and murder of your fellow beings.

Oh, and what’s that?

Cancer.

Ah!

In the past, I couldn’t quite believe that humans couldn’t see the connection between how they were treating animals and the diseases they get from them. To many horses, it really is unbelievable! Now, some humans (who must be on the right track) have made the connection, and many have become vegetarians or what you call vegans. you could have eliminated Cancer years ago If you’d learned from what horses, sheep, cows and other animals eat!

Alright… it’s never a dull moment with you horses, is it! Now, we’re going to finish with another couple of questions from our listeners.

The first is from Mike Monet of Toulouse, France, who says: “Have you heard of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse’? Are these for real, and do they have any significance to horses?” 

What’s this about Chestnut?

It’s connected with a human religion called Christianity. The horsemen are supposed to represent, what humans call, an ‘Apocalypse’ – meaning war, bloodshed, famine and death. 

Oh! That doesn’t sound nice! When will this happen?

It’s happening all over the Earth, every moment of every day! But it has no meaning for horses. A horse would never wish to be involved in anything like this.

That raises the question of horses’ involvement in various wars. Like it or not, horses have been involved in dozens of wars – including the first world war.

Yes, and those wars were totally against our nature, and no horse would every wish to be involved. But they had no choice. Millions of horses have died in human wars.

Now, here’s an interesting question from Ron Traylor of Wisconsin, USA. “I like a lot of the things you guys say, and I can see the sense in much of it. But speaking honestly, I’m a little concerned that folk will run with these ideas without really looking into them, and end up following like sheep.”

Yes, that is an interesting question! Well, first, there is nothing wrong with following like sheep!”

There isn’t?

No, not at all! People say ‘following like sheep’, as if it’s a mindless, unintelligent thing to do. But in fact, sheep work with Nature, following it with Care and Intelligence. Sheep are close to their Soul and, unlike humans, Sheep always listen to their Soul, and always follow its voice.

If you look, impartially, at the way humans live their lives, you will see they mostly have everything in reverse… upside down. Mr Traylor’s question is one small example of that; there are many more. 

Can you give me some examples?

Certainly. ‘Man is the most Intelligent being on the planet’. Would the most intelligent lifeform on this Earth destroy his own home – as Man is doing?’

I have an example… from what we said earlier. Human mothers give birth lying down, but we know the most intelligent and sensible position is squatting. Oh, and another one: animals have been born on the Earth to help man nurture and care for the land. But humans often imprison them, breed them, and then kill them and eat them!

One more: When you die, you either go to a place called Heaven or Hell, depending on what sort of life you lived. But the truth is, there are no places like this in the Universe! The closest to hell would be planet Earth.

Can you give us any hope for the future?

Yes, I can. To Evolve, and move beyond this Earth is so easy – you just have to care for it. Your Soul really would like you to do this, but – as always – it gives you the free choice to go your own way. The best parents in the World care absolutely for their children, and guide them in the way they think is best for their development. But part of that caring is to allow them free choice to follow their own way – and that is what your Soul does for you all. Your Earth, your planet, should not be a garbage can or a playground. It is your future salvation. Start to care for it.

Chestnut, Apple… I don’t know what to say! It’s been a great, great privilege meeting you both, and chatting about Life, the Universe and Everything. It has certainly changed the way I look at things, and I hope I can become a more aware and caring person as a result. Will you return one more time? I’d love to meet the foal, your new child, Apple.

Yes, we would like you to meet him or her. But we’ll allow our new foal the free choice to decide about that!